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	<title>Comments on: One Point Three Point One</title>
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	<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/</link>
	<description>Otaku Software Weblog</description>
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		<title>By: James Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 16:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Dave Marks - Great. We&#039;ve found the problem (along with the weird Explorer CPU usage problem people are seeing) and are testing the patch at the moment. I can&#039;t promise when it&#039;ll be out (it depends on how the testing goes), but I expect it&#039;ll be soon.

Dave Joneston - The unique identifier is only used in the case where two windows are the same size. At all other times we use the area of the window, so that we get the &quot;best-fit&quot; of all the windows on the screen. We can&#039;t use the window title, because windows can have the same title, but we could use the window handle (the number that Windows XP uses to identify the window). We&#039;re going to try this out in the near future once 1.3.x is stable for most people. Re-computing the sort order takes very little time, so we do it every time we tile to save memory. TopDesk already uses up 10-15MB+ to store the window images, so we&#039;ve tried to save memory everywhere else in the application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Marks &#8211; Great. We&#8217;ve found the problem (along with the weird Explorer CPU usage problem people are seeing) and are testing the patch at the moment. I can&#8217;t promise when it&#8217;ll be out (it depends on how the testing goes), but I expect it&#8217;ll be soon.</p>
<p>Dave Joneston &#8211; The unique identifier is only used in the case where two windows are the same size. At all other times we use the area of the window, so that we get the &#8220;best-fit&#8221; of all the windows on the screen. We can&#8217;t use the window title, because windows can have the same title, but we could use the window handle (the number that Windows XP uses to identify the window). We&#8217;re going to try this out in the near future once 1.3.x is stable for most people. Re-computing the sort order takes very little time, so we do it every time we tile to save memory. TopDesk already uses up 10-15MB+ to store the window images, so we&#8217;ve tried to save memory everywhere else in the application.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Joneston</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Joneston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 15:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-18</guid>
		<description>I certainly agree with everyone else in that this product is really useful and certainly the best in its class. (and I&#039;ve tried all of the others.)

Regarding a unique identifier of windows: this may be overly simplistic, but couldn&#039;t you simply use the title of the window? You&#039;re already gathering that data to overlay the text on each window. I&#039;m not sure that sorting based on alphabetic order is the best idea, but you could simply use the attribute to track which window was sorted where. 

Another idea: why re-compute the sort order every time topdesk is called? Why not save the sort order then in the interim if no windows have been added or subtracted revert to that previous  order? This might have the added bonus of furhter speeding up activity when repeatedly invoking topdesk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly agree with everyone else in that this product is really useful and certainly the best in its class. (and I&#8217;ve tried all of the others.)</p>
<p>Regarding a unique identifier of windows: this may be overly simplistic, but couldn&#8217;t you simply use the title of the window? You&#8217;re already gathering that data to overlay the text on each window. I&#8217;m not sure that sorting based on alphabetic order is the best idea, but you could simply use the attribute to track which window was sorted where. </p>
<p>Another idea: why re-compute the sort order every time topdesk is called? Why not save the sort order then in the interim if no windows have been added or subtracted revert to that previous  order? This might have the added bonus of furhter speeding up activity when repeatedly invoking topdesk.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 13:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-17</guid>
		<description>It certainly does.... look forward to the patch

Thanks, great piece of software... tried a bunch of alternatives and TopDesk wins hands down...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly does&#8230;. look forward to the patch</p>
<p>Thanks, great piece of software&#8230; tried a bunch of alternatives and TopDesk wins hands down&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 13:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Dave, people who have experience this issue have told us that right-clicking on the window works. If you can make do with that for now, we&#039;ll have a patch out as soon as we can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, people who have experience this issue have told us that right-clicking on the window works. If you can make do with that for now, we&#8217;ll have a patch out as soon as we can.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 11:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Hi

I have the same problem as Peter - ie multimonitor support is broken - when you select a window on any monitor other than the primary, the selected window isn&#039;t brought to the front.

Is there anywhere that i can download version 1.3.0?

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>I have the same problem as Peter &#8211; ie multimonitor support is broken &#8211; when you select a window on any monitor other than the primary, the selected window isn&#8217;t brought to the front.</p>
<p>Is there anywhere that i can download version 1.3.0?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: James Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 05:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Dave, the problem with maintaining order all the time is that the position of a tiled window is based on the order it&#039;s fed into the layout manager. We determine the order by sorting the windows according to certain attributes (such as window area), so to guarantee that a window goes to the same position each time, we need those window attributes to be unique. In the case of maximized windows, the window area isn&#039;t unique, so we fall back to using the z-order of the window. If we used another attribute that was unique and didn&#039;t change to sort windows that were the same size, we could tile the windows to the same position each time. We&#039;ll experiment with various window attributes to try and achieve this.

neFAST, we don&#039;t refresh the previews when ExposÃ© is activated because it would take 1+ seconds to do so if there were more that a couple of windows open. Minimized windows won&#039;t update with the live preview option because we can&#039;t grab their image when they&#039;re minimized. The implementation we have at the momement is the best we can come up with at the current time, but now that all the main functionality has been implemented, we&#039;ll start to investigate ways to get around the problem. We&#039;re hampered by the window image grabbing being so slow, but we may be able to come up with some tricks to keep the windows more up to date.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, the problem with maintaining order all the time is that the position of a tiled window is based on the order it&#8217;s fed into the layout manager. We determine the order by sorting the windows according to certain attributes (such as window area), so to guarantee that a window goes to the same position each time, we need those window attributes to be unique. In the case of maximized windows, the window area isn&#8217;t unique, so we fall back to using the z-order of the window. If we used another attribute that was unique and didn&#8217;t change to sort windows that were the same size, we could tile the windows to the same position each time. We&#8217;ll experiment with various window attributes to try and achieve this.</p>
<p>neFAST, we don&#8217;t refresh the previews when ExposÃ© is activated because it would take 1+ seconds to do so if there were more that a couple of windows open. Minimized windows won&#8217;t update with the live preview option because we can&#8217;t grab their image when they&#8217;re minimized. The implementation we have at the momement is the best we can come up with at the current time, but now that all the main functionality has been implemented, we&#8217;ll start to investigate ways to get around the problem. We&#8217;re hampered by the window image grabbing being so slow, but we may be able to come up with some tricks to keep the windows more up to date.</p>
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		<title>By: neFAST</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>neFAST</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 18:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Hi, I discovered your software 2 days ago, and spent ... 2 days playing with it ! I&#039;ve tried some other exopsÃ©-like too and wasn&#039;t satisfy with them. Also I was pleased to see that you update yours quite often.

Now I&#039;ve got a few suggestions :

The first time I launched Topdesk I thaught that the windows previews were buggy : for example IE was showing the wring webpage.
Then I noticed the &quot;enable live windows update&quot; option, but the problem is that you have to hover something like 2 seconds on the faulting windows to get the update :( and sometimes it doesn&#039;t update at all ...
Why don&#039;t you refresh the previews when exposÃ© is activated ?(i mean when just before tiling the windows).

What about adding an exclude list for programs we don&#039;t want to see exposed ?

And for the eye-candy part :
- make all previews transparent, not only minimised windows (maybe vary the transp %age)
- let the user choose the hover-color
- add a &quot;hover-zoom&quot; like in entbloess (quite useless :))
- get a snaphot of the desktop including background and icon, not just the background !

PS:The handling of the tiled windows is perfect for me</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I discovered your software 2 days ago, and spent &#8230; 2 days playing with it ! I&#8217;ve tried some other exopsÃ©-like too and wasn&#8217;t satisfy with them. Also I was pleased to see that you update yours quite often.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ve got a few suggestions :</p>
<p>The first time I launched Topdesk I thaught that the windows previews were buggy : for example IE was showing the wring webpage.<br />
Then I noticed the &#8220;enable live windows update&#8221; option, but the problem is that you have to hover something like 2 seconds on the faulting windows to get the update <img src='http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />  and sometimes it doesn&#8217;t update at all &#8230;<br />
Why don&#8217;t you refresh the previews when exposÃ© is activated ?(i mean when just before tiling the windows).</p>
<p>What about adding an exclude list for programs we don&#8217;t want to see exposed ?</p>
<p>And for the eye-candy part :<br />
- make all previews transparent, not only minimised windows (maybe vary the transp %age)<br />
- let the user choose the hover-color<br />
- add a &#8220;hover-zoom&#8221; like in entbloess (quite useless <img src='http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )<br />
- get a snaphot of the desktop including background and icon, not just the background !</p>
<p>PS:The handling of the tiled windows is perfect for me</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Joneston</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Joneston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 16:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-12</guid>
		<description>So after playing with expose on an imac I now see what you&#039;re talking about - the order does indeed change at times based on the foreground window.  (Although in my tests it does seem to change the order less than topdesk does.)

So I suppose my suggestion would now apply for both Topdesk as well as expose. I&#039;d prefer to have the option of forcing all windows to the same order as long as no additional windows are opened or closed.  Any changing of order disrupts my workflow while I hunt for the window in question. It&#039;s a nitpick I guess, but think of it this way - if one were using a 30&quot; monitor but the windows periodically changed locations would the jumbo monitor be as useful?

I wouldn&#039;t say that this should be as big a priority as insuring that all of the bugs are worked out of the existing scheme. But an option to maintain order would be nice - maybe this could be the behavior of the &#039;grid&#039; layout? (although a fixed &#039;spatial&#039; layout would be the best IMHO.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So after playing with expose on an imac I now see what you&#8217;re talking about &#8211; the order does indeed change at times based on the foreground window.  (Although in my tests it does seem to change the order less than topdesk does.)</p>
<p>So I suppose my suggestion would now apply for both Topdesk as well as expose. I&#8217;d prefer to have the option of forcing all windows to the same order as long as no additional windows are opened or closed.  Any changing of order disrupts my workflow while I hunt for the window in question. It&#8217;s a nitpick I guess, but think of it this way &#8211; if one were using a 30&#8243; monitor but the windows periodically changed locations would the jumbo monitor be as useful?</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that this should be as big a priority as insuring that all of the bugs are worked out of the existing scheme. But an option to maintain order would be nice &#8211; maybe this could be the behavior of the &#8216;grid&#8217; layout? (although a fixed &#8216;spatial&#8217; layout would be the best IMHO.)</p>
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		<title>By: James Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 15:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Peter, can you submit a bug report detailing your graphics card/driver and what applications you&#039;re running?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, can you submit a bug report detailing your graphics card/driver and what applications you&#8217;re running?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Parnes</title>
		<link>http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Parnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 11:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.otakusoftware.com/blog/2005/05/01/one-point-three-point-one/#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Bugreport: To front on secondary screens has stopped working in 1.3.1 (worked in 1.3.0). I.e. if I select another window that n the current one topdesk sides back the windows but the clicked window is not put on top. It works on the primary screen. 

This is on a XP with three screens. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bugreport: To front on secondary screens has stopped working in 1.3.1 (worked in 1.3.0). I.e. if I select another window that n the current one topdesk sides back the windows but the clicked window is not put on top. It works on the primary screen. </p>
<p>This is on a XP with three screens. </p>
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